"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
11/21/2016 at 22:30 • Filed to: Speculations
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"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
11/21/2016 at 22:30 • Filed to: Speculations | 1
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They keep reiterating that they won’t build anything below the Macan, which starts life at $47,500 in its most basic form. However, that doesn’t mean they can’t build a compact sports sedan! It only means that the car would start around where the 320hp, BMW 340i begins (which is $47,900). Let’s speculate!
2020 Porsche Small Sedan (Florio?) *Suggest a name, Oppo*
Base - $52,400
3,260 lbs. 305 hp/300 lb-ft, 2.0L H4. (Tuned from 718)
10.69 lbs/hp
4 - $56,200
3,390 lbs. 305 hp/300 lb-ft, 2.0L H4.
11.11 lbs/hp
S - $59,800
3,300 lbs. 350 hp/330 lb-ft, 2.5L H4. (Tuned from 718 S)
9.43 lbs/hp
4S - $63,600
3,430 lbs. 350 hp/330 lb-ft, 2.5L H4.
9.80 lbs/hp
GTS - $71,100
3,500 lbs. 400 hp/370 lb-ft, 3.0L H6. (Tuned from 2017 911 Carrera)
8.75 lbs/hp.
Turbo - $78,700
3,630 lbs. 440 hp/406 lb-ft, 2.9L V6. (From 2017 Panamera 4S)
8.25 lbs/hp. Standard AWD. PDK only.
Turbo S - $89,000
3,680 lbs - 480 hp/440 lb-ft, 2.9L V6.
7.67 lbs/hp. Standard AWD. PDK only.
I love doing these speculations because, for me, they answer a lot of questions as to the reasons certain types of cars don’t exist. Looking at this, the market isn’t there. However it’s pretty close! I think the 3-Series fighting Porsche sedan could be 100% marketable sometime after 2019. That also means that by 2020 brands such as Aston Martin and Maserati could have just enough room for 340 hp, 4-cyl, 3-series sized sedans that start at $67,000-$82,000. Ridiculous I know, but the premium market really is opening up.
In fact, I think premium car leasing will be replaced by “subscriptions” and bump the average US new car purchase price up by 50% by 2025. That means the average price of a new car in the US could well be $48,000 in ten years. But again, I’m speculating.
HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:34 |
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It wouldn’t sell much though, because too maybe people would either say, “but the Macan has more room”, or “but the Cayman is prettier”. And honestly both points are valid.
TheHondaBro
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:37 |
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Porsche Carrayman
Porsche Cayster
Porsche Panoxster
Porsche Caymera
djmt1
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:39 |
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Give them some time they’re still finishing it.
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Wobbles the Mind
> HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
11/21/2016 at 22:43 |
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I was thinking that due to the 718 Only being a two-seater and the Macan S isn’t efficient. There would easily be a 7 mpg difference between the Macan S and this sedan. I actually think there are enough people that want more prestige than a Mercedes or BMW but don’t want a hardcore vehicle. Hence why the M3 softened up, Mercedes started moving AMG down market, and Jaguar and Alfa Romeo are jumping into. There are also enough people wanting something NOT German that even Genesis sees an opportunity to join the fray. Give it a few more years and this will turn into a logical move.
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Wobbles the Mind
> TheHondaBro
11/21/2016 at 22:48 |
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Lol, Caymera! 2019 Porsche 711 Caymera S 1LE
WilliamsSW
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:51 |
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Chimera?
MUSASHI66
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:53 |
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I wonder what’s the percentage of people that care about the gas mileage when they buy a Porsche Macan.
Some quick calculation - average mpg for a Macan is 20 mpg. Drive it for 5 years - and that is generous, most people probably lease them, and you drove 60k miles with 12k miles per year average. That is 3000 gallons. At current prices, call it $2.50 per gallon, that is $7500
If you drive the same amount and get 27mpg, that is 2222 gallons. At $2.50, that is $5555 in 5 years.
Difference of $1944 in 5 years.
$32.40 per month.
Now, gas can be more expensive, and that would make more of a difference, but not enough. If you are a typical Macan owner, your lease is $700 per month, plus tax, plus $4000 down, for 36 months, for approximate monthly payment of $876. Add $100-150 per month for Macan S.
Yeah, those people won’t worry about extra $32.40
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WilliamsSW
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:53 |
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I would love to own this car. Make mine an S with 3 pedals. But I don’t see it happening. The US at least is gravitating away from sedans towards the SUV/crossover. More likely is a Q3 derived mini crossover. :/
E92M3
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 22:57 |
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I wish they would too. I’d settle for a 3/4 scale Panamera.
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Wobbles the Mind
> MUSASHI66
11/21/2016 at 23:02 |
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You’re using math for people that think subjectively. Simply the change from filling up the tank Monday and Thursdays to filling up only on Mondays is enough to make people love a car. Trust me, it bothers me to no end that there is only 250 miles to a fill up on the XF. If I had of got the V6 I’d get an extra two or three days to a tank. That’s 4 stops a month instead of 8 simply due to an extra 4 mpg.
There’s also nothing worse than having a 420 mile trip but only getting 380 miles to the tank...sooo close!
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MUSASHI66
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 23:07 |
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I doubt you have a case there, but you might be right. The way things are, we’ll never know. Porsche is not going to waste money on a small-ish sedan when sedan sales are dying in the USA. In China, they still like the sedan, but prefer vastly larger options for more rear leg room. European market still likes sedans, but it is not nearly large enough for Porsche to develop a car for it.
And, they can simply take the FWD Audi/WV platform and modify it as they did with the Macan and Cayenne.
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Wobbles the Mind
> WilliamsSW
11/21/2016 at 23:12 |
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Nah, we are gravitating towards SUVs as our default vehicles. US households still tend to have 2-3 vehicles even if the person is single. We also still avoid owning two similar vehicles and like to purchase something different. In a two/three vehicle household, people will probably look to a small, premium, RWD, performance sedan as their reasonable sportscar (much like what’s happening with hot hatches in the US now). Large sedans are dead, but small performance sedans/liftbacks are going to surge.
Moves-Like-Senna
> TheHondaBro
11/21/2016 at 23:12 |
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I was just going to post that and saw this haha. The Panamera was derived from Carrera so this is bang on.
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WilliamsSW
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 23:16 |
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Considering that we have 4 vehicles in a 2 driver household, I can’t argue with that. I hope you’re right because I want to keep seeing new drivers cars coming- not self driving SUVs.
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Wobbles the Mind
> MUSASHI66
11/21/2016 at 23:19 |
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Nooooo, that ruins everything! I don’t know if this will help anything but I tried qualifying this segment way back when. I found that Audi can’t keep up with the performance levels unless they offer AWD, however all the RWD sedans gain a huge pricing advantage due to that between $45,000 to $70,000. I think that’s part of the reason we probably won’t get an RS4 but a 4-door RS5 will be available. http://oppositelock.kinja.com/levels-of-performance-premium-compact-sedan-segment-1779116620
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Wobbles the Mind
> WilliamsSW
11/21/2016 at 23:30 |
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Small performance cars under $60k are the answer. Expect a flood of cars between Civic Si, to GTI, to Focus RS, up to M4 rivals across every single brand. There is a sweet spot in performance between 240 hp to 400 hp in these size cars. To offer the same level of performance in midsize sedans and CUVs it now takes over 550 hp and over 600 hp to keep up with the new E63 S, RS7 Performance, and so on. Many don’t have that kind of commitmentto competing, but everyone has two 4-cyls and maybe a 6-cyl that covers that range already.
Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 23:36 |
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I think something inbetween a 911 and a Panamera makes sense. But I doubt it would physically have 4 doors. More like a GT coupe that is more or less a small sedan in size but with two doors. That’s just a guess.
And would I want Porsche to make such a car? Heck yes but it’s not like I’d be buying it new so I’m not sure what my opinion matters.
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Wobbles the Mind
> Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle
11/21/2016 at 23:39 |
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I would love a shooting brake, like a “budget” Ferrari FF/Lusso
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WilliamsSW
> Wobbles the Mind
11/21/2016 at 23:49 |
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Works for me- at the numbers you suggest, any manufacturer can build a car that will put a big smile on your face, if the chassis engineering is there.
The E63, RS7, etc are impressive but seem like “numbers cars” to me. Not to mention that I think the value proposition isn’t there, and they’re heavier and less tossable.
gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
> Wobbles the Mind
11/22/2016 at 00:06 |
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I dont see how it wouldn’t compete with an audi A4 or base A6. but what do I know I thought the same thing when they came out with the macan
Tapas
> Wobbles the Mind
11/22/2016 at 06:50 |
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A small sedan, you say? I don’t know about that. But I’m sure they’ll make a Panamera Coupe soon.